The Missing Carbine Has Been Found

I grew up with the Family Circus and always got a little chuckle from the depictions of the path the little boy took to get to things. Probably because I saw a lot of it in myself. It's taken me a long time and a circuitous path, but I've finally arrived at my "pistol caliber carbine" destination. Below is the Kel-Tec Sub 2000.

  

 Yes, I'm aware that it's a little unusual.... 

..... and that's just the beginning. Yup, it does indeed fold in half. Opened, it's roughly 30 inches. Folded, it's about 16"!!! Let me go back to the beginning and explain my "philosophy of use" for this thing. 

• I wanted a carbine that takes my primary pistol round (9mm Parabellum) and preferably my magazine as well. 
• Something that most anyone can get better accuracy than a pistol..... and at a longer range. Around 25 to 75 yards; where a pistol leaves off.
• Something that can go most anywhere without being obtrusive...... oh, say like an AR, or even a case big enough to hold an AR.
• Something small, light and easy to carry as well as get into action.
• Modern, with the ability to adapt modern accessories.
• Relatively inexpensive. 

 

My original intention was to take the "Planet of the Apes" gun, otherwise known as the Hi Point 995 and add the forthcoming Hightower Armory MBS 95 "bullpup" stock making it about 26" overall. I got as far as spending $150 to pick up one on Gunbroker. Unfortunately, after a trip to the range, the reality of the pathetic 10 round magazine got me to thinking about other options. Then it got worse when I realized that in fact, the rumors of the ProMag 15 round magazines not working proved to be all too accurate. There is a fix.... kind of, but if you try, it, and it doesn't work, you're out of luck, since it involves disassembling the mag, and bending the springs! So, I did a little math in my head.I had $150 in the 995. Hightower Armory said the stock conversion would be between $200 and $250; so we'll say $225. That makes the outlay about $375..... and that's with a magazine that wasn't anywhere close to my Walther and still stuck with a 10 round max. I knew the Kel-Tecs run in the upper $300s and lower $400 so the total wasn't too far apart. So, what was the deciding factor?

Yup, mags, but not just any mags...... Beretta 92 mags. As it turns out, a number of gun manufacturers use mags that are very similar. It kind of makes sense right? Similar concept, similar number of rounds, same round. Here's what happened; as always, I was looking around at trying to find inexpensive magazines for my rather expensive Walther P99, the originals of which are $40+ each. Of course, Sig mags, or HK mags aren't any cheaper, but I came across an article talking about using mags from the Beretta 92f/fs. It's also comes in a variant called the M9..... getting the picture now? Yeah, that M9, the former sidearm of the U.S. military that was just replace by the Sig 320. So, there are all sorts of mags available cheap, but there's going to be more coming, as the military begins to dump it's warehouses! 

What does this have to do with my Walther P99? Back to my original story. Apparently, after a little modification, Beretta 92 mags can be used in the P99! So, this was the best of all worlds! I'd have a gun capable of using, quality, yet very inexpensive magazines, but have those same mags also fit my primary handgun! Is that cool or what! To test that, I bought a couple of extended 30 round Beretta 92/PX4 mags and tried them in my P99. They worked fine, except that I need to cut another retention slot in each one. 

So, back to the Kel-Tec Sub 2000. ......which by the way, is not without it's warts. It has a number of deficiencies which include build quality (sub $500 MSRP in today's world gets you a lot of polymer), and a few other random things. But never fear, if there's a firearm made in decent quantities, today's booming after-market has one or more solutions. And in the case of the Sub 2K, it's M-Carbo of St. Petersburg, Florida. I'm not going to get into an exhaustive list of their products here, but of particular importance are machined aluminum replacement pieces for the trigger parts which solves the common complaint of the trigger pull. Their extensive collection of replacement parts plays an important role in my decision as well. Did I mention that this gun is not only small (when folded), but only weighs 4lbs! So, what's the next step? Finding one for a reasonable price. 

Actually, for this gun, finding one has been a bit of an issue, although that has gotten better of late. The problem is that the Sub 2K mostly sells for retail and often for more than that. The full retail figure is $500, but supposedly, you should be able to find them for about $400. Then came the "hunt". I found that if a person was persistent, this carbine could be had for around $400 + or - online. Which means you'll have to tack on another $25 to $35 for shipping. Hard hunting can find a similar price locally, then you end up tacking on about the same amount in taxes. Which is where Gun Broker comes into the picture. I've found that you can find pretty much anything you want there, but you'll mostly pay the "typical" price. However, if a person is diligent and persistent, AND disciplined, he/she can find a "deal". In my case, the "deal" came in the form of a lightly used Gen 2 version, that came with a very reasonable $20 shipping charge, AND extras...... 

What extras? You may not be able to tell, but they can all be seen in this picture in some way. There's the M-Carbo bolt handle cover, aluminum trigger and trigger guard, a Magpul AFG (Angled ForeGrip), a recoil pad, an extra magazine, and a Kel-Tec soft case sized for the Sub 2000. There may be more, but I won't be able to tell till I take the gun apart. All-in-all, just the pieces I've been able to identify comes to over $150, so when I tell you guys that I got it for $385, plus the $20 shipping making the total $404.95, I'm just about busting at the seams over it! Add to that, the ability to take magazines I already own, I'd say that this is just about the perfect "go everywhere" long-gun for me.

Pistol Caliber Carbine Connundrum

I love "pistol caliber carbines" (PCC), actually, that's a bit of a lie. More correctly stated, I love sub-machine guns, however, if a person doesn't want to get involve in NFA (national firearms act) restricted weapons, the modern PCC is as close as the average person's gonna get.

In reality, I'd really love to own a Swedish "K", but Uncle Sam frowns on such things, so I'm left with the a regular carbine with at least a 16" barrel. 

Where I originally started was one of these......

.....which I intended to turn into one of these. Now on the eve of Hightower Armory releasing it's bullpup stock for the 995, I'm having second thoughts. Why?

Let's look at the decision making matrix and dissect all the factors involved. 

• I'm looking for a easy handling pistol caliber carbine capable of using the same ammunition as my primary handgun (9mm). This one is easy since the 9mm is the most popular caliber on the planet.
• I don't want to spend more than $500 "all in". This one is a little tougher, but definitely doable.
• I really want it to be compact and easy to carry around unobtrusively. Definitely makes things harder.
•  Oh, yeah.... I like interesting....

So, there you go. Not too bad. It needs to a 9mm carbine, (16" barrel, 26" long), cheap, shoots the 9 x 19mm and interesting. Then, let's look at the candidates:

• 1st, there's the "Planet of the Apes" gun, or the original Hi Point 995, 'cus I own that. It's very handy, it's cheap, shoots the 9mm and the Hightower Armory stock is coming soon, .....and should correct the ugly gun syndrome! Issues? REALLY hate the 10 round magazine limit! 
• 2nd, is the AR variant. We'll go ahead and get the elephant out in the open. They're expensive. I might squeak a home-build in under $500..... maybe. And the cheap self-build using magazine adapters tend to be a little unreliable.
•  3rd, is the "new" option (for me at least). That would be the Kel-Tec Sub 2000 folding semi-auto. It's very unusual and kinda cool. More on this later. 

There are others such as the new Ruger PC9, but they are well out of my financial range. And some like the Beretta CX4 Storm is out of consideration due to ugliness. So, let's look at the folding gun,shall we....

In 2001, George Kellgren, aka Mr. Kel-Tec brought out the original Sub 2000 (image is Gen 2). At the time, it was (and still is) a revolutionary concept, where you can take a semi-automatic carbine and give it the ability to fold in half, giving it an overall length of 16" folded and 30" open! That's a size that's easily back-packable. On top of that, the design comes in flavors to take magazines from several major handgun manufacturers such as Glock, Smith & Wesson, Beretta and Sig Sauer. Why did this even become a thing?

Here's the deal. You might have heard that Walther magazines cost an arm and a leg. So, I've been looking into using mags from other manufacturer's guns. One such gun is the Beretta 9x series of pistols, one of which is the 92 that our military calls the M9. As a result, you can often find these mags for them cheap, including the excellent quality Beretta branded 30 round extended mag as depicted above. When modified (eg, cutting a new slot for the Walther mag release), it can be used in my P99! Which mean that I'd be able to take a Sub 2000 set up for Beretta mags and use modified ones as interchangeable between it and my Walther. To me, that's extremely attractive! 

So yeah; something along the lines of this Gen 1 Glock model, but you get the idea. Right now, I'm very tempted to sell my Planet of the Apes 995 and save up for one of these!

An Up and Down Range Session

This was me on Monday! Presidents Day finally gave me a chance to get over to a range and try out my reloads..... and the Walther P99. Overall, I'd say, that I shot about 200 rounds of 9mm in three different guns.

The bulk of them were fired through the P99, which was fantastic by the way....

I fired several magazines through Hi Point 995 to establish a couple of things. One, it operates well had no trouble with even my handloads. Two; the issues that I read about the gun having with ProMag extended 15 round mags were also confirmed! That that I've been able to confirm the reliability of the gun, I now need to decide whether I want to continue on to build the Hightower Armory bullpup project, or sell it to buy a Kel-tec Sub 2000 folding carbine. 

 

......then about 20 rounds through this Fedarm SS12 shotgun with a 7", 9mm rifled adapter. I I learned that it's accurate with the 9mm making it a legit multi-caliber gun, so I'm pretty darned pleased with this $63 bargain. Those are the ups.

The downs? I had some of the above.... right. Yup, some cratered and flattened primers showing some signs of over-pressure. So; some adjustments are in order for my reloading processes. All-in-all though, an hour at the range is the start of a pretty good day! 

2nd Amendment Arsenal Planning

It's my belief that if a person decides to take on the responsibilities of executing the 2nd Amendment, it requires some planning. Which basically means that you can't just run out, and buy a shotgun (or a pistol) and call it good! Does that make me a "Prepper"? Maybe, but not necessarily. I just think that if you want to do something like this, there's a number of things that need to be considered. The main one, is the "philosophy of use" or some version there-of.

Does this mean that I've taken on the concept that society is in death-spiral? I don't, but I will say that I believe that there might very well be periods where there could be an absence of the "rule of law". Whether that will be due to civil unrest, natural disaster, or economic disaster, I don't know. All I can say is that at no time in my life have I ever felt this amount of unease in relation to societal stability. Which means the following in terms of when I might need to use defensive force:

• Armed burglary.
• Home invasion for purely the creation of chaos and violence.
• Societal breakdown creating the lack of general policing by the normal agencies.
• Economic breakdown creating the need to move locations, support and defend the family and loved ones during this time-frame.

So, what does this mean in terms of firearms needs?

As you guys know; I've already started with a handgun, in the form of a modern 9mm, high-capacity-polymer-framed striker-fired pistol. The reason for this is that, it's the easiest to carry and handle as well as cheapest to practice with and get better. 

In my case, it's the Heckler and Koch VP9 with 15 round standard magazines. It's light, easy to carry and easy enough to shoot that anyone in my family could operate it. What ease do I need? Ahhh...... here we go......

I intend my next purchase to be a 12 gauge pump shotgun. These are easily the most intimidating to an intruder, yet simplest to handle by the user of any firearm. I've narrowed it down to either the Remington 870, or the Mossberg 500. These two models are pretty much the standard of virtually all police departments of the last 25 years. This means that they're easy to find and parts are universally available. I'll probably just prowl the pawnshops till I find one at the right price and condition.  Plus, if I ever decide to take up bird hunting or clays, I can still use it as well.

..... then there's the obvious. It's my intention to start building an AR15 clone in the very near future. This is where my philosophy of use goes from the purely defensive to a relatively offensive nature. Of course, as a gun chambered for the .223/5.56 NATO, it can be used for things like the feral hog (the plague of the south), and white tail deer, but in reality, it's purpose is, if things really "go south" in a "raging mob" or "Zombie Apocalypse" sense! Apart from that; these things are the ultimate "big boys' toys". They're like a full-on Lego gun. So, yes; I did say "build". If you didn't already know, this weapon can be bought in pieces and put together as one wishes in whatever manner pleases.

No, it's not short term memory loss. This is an AR9 (or any number of other names), basically an AR receiver adapted to take an upper with parts to fire the 9mm pistol cartridge. These can be set up as a carbine, or a pistol, or an SBR (short-barreled rifle), if you want to deal with the headache of filing for an exception to the National Firearms Act and pay a $200 tax stamp! But in any case, you can see the power of the AR platform and it's phenomenal adaptability. The philosophy of use is to have a weapon that can fire the same cartridge as my pistol but at greater velocity and accuracy while also a lower recoil. But then again, I might do this.....

!?!?!?...... it's a High Tower Armory Bullpup conversion of this......

..... the Hi Point 995, one of the ugliest firearms to ever come out of a factory anywhere (and it's American), but it's cheap. They can sometimes be found under $200. The conversion addresses a number of issues, but doesn't deal with the 995 woeful 10 round magazine. We'll see.....

The last of this set will be a "conceal carry weapon". It's my intention to take the classes and get a Texas CHL (Concealed Handgun License). The use philosophy is obvious for this. Yes; I'm that concerned. The above image depicts the Smith and Wesson M&P Shield, which is considered a standard in the carry community, but at this point, I'm interested in the other one. It's the Taurus PT-111, which is a sub-compact 9mm that's close to the same size, but sells for around half the Shield's $400. Would I love to have a Walther PPS, or HK VP9SK? Sure, but saving $200 is a lot of practice ammo.

That brings us up to 5 very different guns with different jobs. Should there, will there be more? I don't know. I'd be that there probably will be at least one more, although, right now, I have no idea what I might want or need. Might be a .22LR, or very likely some sort of survival gun. Possibly a cheap single shot shotgun that would allow the use of multiple cartridge adapters which in a survival scenario, would give the possibility of scrounging multiple types of cartridges. So, that's it for now. Of course, I'll have more to say about each and every one of these guns as I progress.